Welcome Guest. Register Now!  



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:52 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
Single Member LLC W-9 EIN vs SSN

I am the owner of a single member LLC in AZ with no employees. I have an EIN for the LLC. I am doing some work for another company and they are asking for a W-9. The way I understand the instructions since the LLC is a disregarded entity I may not use the my LLCs EIN and must instead use my personal SSN. The only reason I got an EIN is so I don't have to use my SSN. I don't really get the point of having an EIN if I have to use my SSN with the irs..

Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?

Thanks,
-Adam



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:08 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,620
I am the owner of a single member LLC in AZ with no employees. I have an EIN for the LLC. I am doing some work for another company and they are asking for a W-9. The way I understand the instructions since the LLC is a disregarded entity I may not use the my LLCs EIN and must instead use my personal SSN.=====> it depends; LLCs choosing to be taxed as corps or partnerships need an EIN. Even SMLLCs, should they have employees or choose corp tax treatment, also need an EIN.By default, the IRS treats SMLLCs as sole proprietorships.UNLESS you make an election, your SMLLC will be treated as a sole proprietorship.As a sole proprietorship doing business through an LLC, you do not need a separate EIN number unless you have employees or are required to file excise tax returns. By default, owners of SMLLCs report the business profits and losses from the LLC on their personal tax returns using their own Social Security number or tax identification number. Owners of SMLLCs are not required to have separate EINs because they are not considered employees of the LLC by the IRS. However, if your SMLLC has other employees you are required to obtain an EIN and file employment taxes.



The only reason I got an EIN is so I don't have to use my SSN. I don't really get the point of having an EIN if I have to use my SSN with the irs..=>you may use either your SSN or EIN; as a sole owner I guess you need an EIN to open your biz account at a bank.

Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?==>> You can obtain an EIN even if it is not required, or use your SSN#. There are 2 good reasons to use an EIN instead of your Social Security number: to avoid identity theft ;identity thieves steal taxpayer's SSN# and use them to file fraudulent tax returns and obtain tax refunds. For this reason, it's wise to keep your personal Social Security number as private as possible.ALSO,If you perform personal services as an independent contractor, you must provide an EIN or SSN#to your clients, or the client will be required to withhold 28% of your payments. Obtaining an EIN allows you to avoid having to provide your Social Security number to clients and other members of the public



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:16 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wnhough View Post
I am the owner of a single member LLC in AZ with no employees. I have an EIN for the LLC. I am doing some work for another company and they are asking for a W-9. The way I understand the instructions since the LLC is a disregarded entity I may not use the my LLCs EIN and must instead use my personal SSN.=====> it depends; LLCs choosing to be taxed as corps or partnerships need an EIN. Even SMLLCs, should they have employees or choose corp tax treatment, also need an EIN.By default, the IRS treats SMLLCs as sole proprietorships.UNLESS you make an election, your SMLLC will be treated as a sole proprietorship.As a sole proprietorship doing business through an LLC, you do not need a separate EIN number unless you have employees or are required to file excise tax returns. By default, owners of SMLLCs report the business profits and losses from the LLC on their personal tax returns using their own Social Security number or tax identification number. Owners of SMLLCs are not required to have separate EINs because they are not considered employees of the LLC by the IRS. However, if your SMLLC has other employees you are required to obtain an EIN and file employment taxes.



The only reason I got an EIN is so I don't have to use my SSN. I don't really get the point of having an EIN if I have to use my SSN with the irs..=>you may use either your SSN or EIN; as a sole owner I guess you need an EIN to open your biz account at a bank.

Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?==>> You can obtain an EIN even if it is not required, or use your SSN#. There are 2 good reasons to use an EIN instead of your Social Security number: to avoid identity theft ;identity thieves steal taxpayer's SSN# and use them to file fraudulent tax returns and obtain tax refunds. For this reason, it's wise to keep your personal Social Security number as private as possible.ALSO,If you perform personal services as an independent contractor, you must provide an EIN or SSN#to your clients, or the client will be required to withhold 28% of your payments. Obtaining an EIN allows you to avoid having to provide your Social Security number to clients and other members of the public
Thank you very much for your time and response. It seems however you have completely missed my actual question. "Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?"

I have thus far chosen to be taxed via the default sole proprietor as its a SMLLC and no employees.

Regards,
Adam



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:34 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfab View Post
Thank you very much for your time and response. It seems however you have completely missed my actual question. "Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?"

I have thus far chosen to be taxed via the default sole proprietor as its a SMLLC and no employees.

Regards,
Adam
It seems however you have completely missed my actual question. "Is there any way I can get around not having to use my SSN (obviously I don't want to use it for security reasons). ==>No; I do not think so you need to use either your EIN or your SSN # unless you are a non resident that usually uses ITIN; IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for a SSN who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty needs an ITIN.

Can I get another EIN under my own name and use it for cases like this (filling out W-9s)?"====You can not get two EINs for the same business even under your name.you need only one EIN for your business. However,it is possible aslongas you have a business and your business name is exactly same as your name; I mean UNLESS you create a DBA for your business, you may get an EIN under your name that is also business name.



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2017, 09:49 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5
why can't you use the EIN?

I think you are miss-reading the W9. I would give the EIN number. The form does not say you can't give the EIN. All it is saying is you will report the revenues and expenses on a schedule C (because a single member LLC is a disregarded entity for taxes). It is a valid entity for liability protection (and a legal entity). By giving or using your SSN you would defeat the purpose of having a LLC.



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2017, 11:23 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tax View Post
I think you are miss-reading the W9. I would give the EIN number. The form does not say you can't give the EIN. All it is saying is you will report the revenues and expenses on a schedule C (because a single member LLC is a disregarded entity for taxes). It is a valid entity for liability protection (and a legal entity). By giving or using your SSN you would defeat the purpose of having a LLC.
i am nogt quite sure if you understand what i mean

Correct;as SAID PREVIOUSLY since your biz is SMLLC, however, aslongas your biz is DBA you may get an EIN under your name since your name is same as your biz name;in your case your biz is DBA so you can not get another EIN for the same biz. For federal income tax purposes, a SMLLC classified as a disregarded entity generally must use your SSN or EIN for all information returns and reporting related to income tax. For example, if a SMLLC that is owned by you is required to provide a Form W-9, then, the W-9 should provide the owner?s SSN or EIN, not the SMLLC?s EIN



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:47 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
A little confused by the last few posts....

So the way the W-9 instructions read since my SMLLC is a disregarded entity I cannot use the LLC's EIN. If this is not the case please explain. I may however use my personal SSN or personal EIN.

This is directly quoted from the W-9 instructions:
Quote:
If you are a single-member LLC that is disregarded as an entity separate from its
owner (see Limited Liability Company (LLC) on this page), enter the owner?s SSN
(or EIN, if the owner has one). Do not enter the disregarded entity?s EIN. If the LLC
is classified as a corporation or partnership, enter the entity?s EIN.
Quote:
By giving or using your SSN you would defeat the purpose of having a LLC.
Yeah that is my issue... Say I get an EIN under my own name, even though it is preferred since I'm not giving out my SSN it still seems like its makes the LLC pointless.

Still confused about is getting an EIN under my name. My LLC has a unique name say GOLDENFAB LLC that it does business under. So it sounds like I can just get a EIN under my personal name and having nothing to do with GOLDENFAB LLC and use it for the W-9? I think you have to fill out something for doing business as, should I just use my personal name for doing business as part. Seems odd I am forced to be doing business as myself when the its actually GOLDENFAB LLC doing the work, again makes the whole point of the LLC worthless. Will my new personal EIN be interchangeable with my SSN when it comes to tax documents with the irs?

Thanks,
Adam



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2017, 01:18 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5
Make it easy

The more EIN numbers you request the more confusing it will become. You have a good LLC with a good EIN number. File out the W-9 with your name on line one and the LLC's name on line 2. Check box 3 sole proprietor or single member LLC. Use the LLC's EIN number. When you file your 2017 1040 the LLC's income and expense go on schedule C (in box D enter the EIN). Doing business in the LLC's name may give you some liability protection and your SSN will not be seen by those you are doing work for. If you are concerned with marketing your name almost nobody (except a bookkeeper) will even look at the W-9.



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2017, 06:47 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfab View Post
A little confused by the last few posts....

So the way the W-9 instructions read since my SMLLC is a disregarded entity I cannot use the LLC's EIN. If this is not the case please explain. I may however use my personal SSN or personal EIN.

This is directly quoted from the W-9 instructions:




Yeah that is my issue... Say I get an EIN under my own name, even though it is preferred since I'm not giving out my SSN it still seems like its makes the LLC pointless.

Still confused about is getting an EIN under my name. My LLC has a unique name say GOLDENFAB LLC that it does business under. So it sounds like I can just get a EIN under my personal name and having nothing to do with GOLDENFAB LLC and use it for the W-9? I think you have to fill out something for doing business as, should I just use my personal name for doing business as part. Seems odd I am forced to be doing business as myself when the its actually GOLDENFAB LLC doing the work, again makes the whole point of the LLC worthless. Will my new personal EIN be interchangeable with my SSN when it comes to tax documents with the irs?

Thanks,
Adam
So the way the W-9 instructions read since my SMLLC is a disregarded entity I cannot use the LLC's EIN. ========>>For federal income tax purposes, your SMLLC classified as a disregarded entity generally MUST use your SSN or EIN for all information returns and reporting related to income tax. By default, the IRS treats SMLLCs as sole proprietorships. As a sole proprietorship doing business through an SMLLC, you do not need a separate EIN number unless you have employees or are required to file excise tax returns. By default, owners of SMLLCs report the business profits and losses from the SMLLC on their personal tax returns using their own Social Security number or tax identification number, EIN. Owners of SMLLCs are not required to have separate EINs because they are not considered employees of the SMLLC by the IRS. However, if your SMLLC has other employees you are required to obtain an EIN and file employment taxes.

Still confused about is getting an EIN under my name. My LLC has a unique name say GOLDENFAB LLC that it does business under. So it sounds like I can just get a EIN under my personal name and having nothing to do with GOLDENFAB LLC and use it for the W-9?==>>OK you now often operate under a DBA to establish separate identities for your businesses to potential customer or clients that are distinct from your personal identities. However, the IRS does not require you, an SMLLC, a sole proprietor, to obtain an EIN, even if you use a DBA for your business. Instead, you would use your personal Social Security number. Nonetheless,you as a sole proprietor using a DBA may wish to obtain a separate EIN for the business as well, to further distinguish your business transactions from your private affairs. In addition, many banks require that a sole proprietor must present present a DBA certificate, an EIN, or both, as a condition of opening a business bank account, which is an essential element of establishing separate business credit. in your case since your biz is DBA, you can use either SSN or an EIN of the DBA. DBA is a name or fictitious business name allows you or your company to do business under a different name;As a sole proprietor, say, your name and your business name are legally the same. For example, say, if you are John Smith and you have a consulting business, the name of your business is John Smith. then your biz is DBA.



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! stumble!bookmark in google!Share on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Ads
Reply

« member loan to LLC | - »

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
As a Single member LLC can member use name as DBA? soloirie Limited Liability Company 1 03-26-2015 07:04 PM
Single Member LLC Non US member pizzamy Limited Liability Company 1 01-16-2010 11:52 PM
Single member llc to two member llc smllc Limited Liability Company 0 01-16-2010 11:49 PM
Single member LLC Question bobbranner Limited Liability Company 0 02-09-2008 11:31 PM
Can A Single Member Llc Convert To Inc aloke07 Limited Liability Company 0 10-26-2007 09:20 AM

Follow us on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Google Buzz Rss Feeds

» Categories
 
Individual
 » Income
 » IRA/Sep
 » Medical
 
Corporations
 » Payroll
 
Forum for CPAs
 
Financial Planning